
Sunrise at sea
The Lobby Group Org announces the commencement of the system upgrade project.
As a non political organisation comprising various eclectic individuals, who were first introduced to each other in cyberspace, this project is strictly outside any self interested party, be it political, financial, corporate, media or philosophical.
Debate will initially be facilitated by using a series of subject headings and anyone is welcome to debate the contents of the headings. Posts will be updated periodically to contain the consensus of opinion debated within them with the intention of forming a coherent manifesto. This can be, and should be, challenged and debated at any time.
The Lobby Group administrators-persons who are drawn from different walks of life- will try to be as impartial as possible in editing the manifesto.
This final manifesto will then be promoted and publicised for use (in whole or partial form) by existing political parties or for use by a new party, formed outside of the Lobby Group.
The Lobby Group Org is commited to maintaining a non partisan position and will act as a facilitator to debate of issues outside of the self interested incumbent political, financial and media elite whom have a vested self interest in maintaining the status quo.
It is intended if we can get enough support to take the debate out of cyberspace and into our local pubs, to support them, learn to live and communicate outside of cyberspace again and hey..who knows we may even make some real friends and enjoy it.
Join the debate..this can not happen without participation.
Here is a taster below of why people are getting involved with this:
The global economic model is reliant on continual growth to keep people in work.
Continual growth is no longer possible because there are too many people on the planet who want to consume like the USA, so when we try to grow now we immediately hit the buffers of commodities availability and prices (remember crude at $150 a barrel, record steel prices, copper prices etc etc etc etc). That is one major factor that facilitated the crash.
There are not enough resources for the world to continue to grow..so we cant..so the global economic model is busted and needs to change to a throughput model not an eternal consumption and growth model.
That is a huge change and is not in the interests of the incumbent financial institutions and large corporations in particular whom have become incredibly powerful under the current economic system and often fund political parties and actively lobby them constantly, they have the resources to do so. George Bush was a huge friend of Big business, all his policies on energy and foreign policy reflected that. They would rather stay extraordinarily rich and have huge influence than do the right thing and are happy to keep the populous in the dark. Pretty crappy really.
Leading governments and banks are not even talking about a change to a throughput economy (e.g. through a much more sophisticated VAT system and a vastly simplified income tax system). They are trying to reinstate the existing ‘Chicago school of economics’ consumption and growth model as described above through a combination of denial and greed the external influence of big business on the incumbent political parties.
The only logical long term solution to resolve the current unsustainable state of affairs is for everyone to work less and be happy with less in a throughput economic model not a consumer / consumption economic model. That does not mean our lives need be any less fulfilling..probably the opposite.
E.g. under a throughput model a family can save to buy a gas guzzling fancy car if that is what turns then on, it is their choice but the VAT on that would be 70% (say) as a reflection of its use of non renewable resources and climate damage, alternatively they could buy a wind turbine for their house, the VAT on that would be minus 70% say (a discount). The whole economy / tax system would run on those lines in order to keep the global model in balance, you would be rewarded in your pay packet and consume on the basis of the value the activity has to society as a whole. Isnt that supposed to be the point of taxation?
It is a massive change and in a global economy all the world economies would have to sign up to it simultaneously for it to work….no good having 70% VAT here if they have 10% in France. A good realistec starting point however may be for countries to start to become self sufficient within their own borders at least for their basic needs.
We have the technology now such that we do not need to spend 75% of our time in the fields just to feed ourselves. The technology and mechanisation dividend has not been passed on to the majority in the form of a reasonable standard of living and more time with their families and friends.
Instead we are culturally driven ever on to ‘desire more stuff’ and work hard to get ‘more stuff’. Usually the ‘stuff’ does not make us happy and the wealth generated by that system gets concentrated within a growing number of ‘super rich’ (was it not ever so?). Billions of people worldwide with wide eyes fixed upon the living standards in the west are hoping to jump onto this consumer bandwagon where we throw away 30% of all the food we buy comprise 10% of the world population but consume 70% of the energy.
Should we be surprised that the economic wheels have fallen off?
I could be totally wrong of course….as I am not a high flying Harvard trained economist………what do I know…..
Join the debate.
Contact your local elected officials - for free
by derekpm
13 Jul 2009 at 00:09
Rather interesting. Has few times re-read for this purpose to remember. Thanks for interesting article. Waiting for trackback
by Jericoa
14 Jul 2009 at 22:39
Thats great! All we need is a few million more to do likewise and the media will start to pay attension to what is the bleedin obvious!
I really dont think the politicians and economists and the like would have any real answer to it in open debate. But they never get tested. All the debate is within a narrow framework, the right answers are outside of the context of their debate now, they are busily moving the deckchairs around on the deck of the titanic.
by alexander curzon
17 Jul 2009 at 17:19
Jericoa
Thanks for all your hard work this looks very interesting
Cheers. .
by Jericoa
18 Jul 2009 at 20:18
Thanks Alexander,
Nick taylor, Goldtop and John bray get all the credit for the site by the way.
look forward to some participation, without participation the site will just fade away.
by Steve Gaulter
20 Jul 2009 at 16:28
Thank god someone has started something – In this article you have laid out all the problems that I have been trying to bring to the attention of my group of friends – it is a hard slog individually, but maybe together we can articulate the problems to others and get them to help with the solutions.
Steve
by goldtop
20 Jul 2009 at 16:36
Welcome Steve.
There are a multitude of people out there who feel the same as we do. Word is spreading. Please stick around and help us work through some ideas and concepts- everyone’s input is welcome.
by Jericoa
20 Jul 2009 at 20:55
Another idea below to spread awareness, I am trying to find a way to communicate it in such away that anyone can understand it, you have to pull the rug out from the intellectual cartel and present it in a simple way that is obviously true yet outside of econo techno speak.
Any views on the following proposed paper through the letter box leaflet welcome.
The Great 21st Century Deception.
Read on, this affects you, it affects your family, it effects your children and your children’s children future prosperity and happiness and YOU can do something about it.
There is no need to work your fingers to the bone during the best years of your life when you are young.
There is no need to worry about feeding your family
There is no need to worry about paying utility bills or keeping a roof over your head
There is no need for a great deal of the human suffering that touches our lives.
Too good to be true?
Like hell it is.
Take a step back, take a look around you at the modern world of high technology and machines and machines that make machines.
In the 1960’s it took 300??? man hours to make a family car, in 2009 it takes 30????man hours …research needed….
In the 1960’s there was a dream that in the future we would all work less and have more time with our friends and families and for leisure pursuits because of all the labour saving devices we would invent and make ever more efficiently.
It is not a dream it is already here.
It is already here but we are not being told the truth and we are not being allowed to realise that dream. We are held in bondage to the myth that the economy must always grow and become ever more efficient.
It can not. It is a mathematical impossibility.
Ask yourself these obvious questions which never get asked in the media.
How can we invent more and more labour saving devices and still have everyone working 40 hours a week and near full employment?
How can we have an economy that needs to grow and grow and grow to keep us all in jobs when the things that are needed to make the economy grow do not grow?
Oil, gas, Iron ore, aluminium, copper and coal don’t grow and will either run out or become so expensive we can not grow anymore because we can not find enough raw materials in the earth to carry on growing forever.
Remember the record petrol prices and gas prices at the height of the boom. Guess what copper, steel, aluminium and other essential raw materials were all at record prices and increasing at that time.
Do you still believe the world can recover and provide jobs for everyone by restoring growth when the raw materials needed to restore growth do not grow?
The only people who benefit from the continuation of the deception of the current system are those who are rich already and are selling the oil and gas and cars and TV’s that last 2 years then break down in order for you to buy a slightley better and expensive new one.
They also happen to be the same people who fund political parties and own newspapers and TV stations.
You may think you live in a democracy where you have a choice but you don’t, there is only the illusion of choice.
The ruling elite will tell us that this is ‘the politics of envy’. This is not about being jealous of the rich and the powerful, they never seem that happy to me, what is there to be jealous of? Happiness seems to reside more in the well balanced descent and silent majority.
It is not jealousy that is driving this it is justice, justice is required to prevent the greed of the rich and powerful to adversely effect the lives of the well balanced and descent majority.
Was it not ever so?
If this makes sense to you contact lobbygroup.org.
Lobbygroup.org is not linked to any political party or business or institution or think tank and is funded by nothing more than the time of those who wish to contribute to it.
Join the debate, use democracy to force a peaceful change .
by Leanomist
21 Jul 2009 at 13:15
I’ve just joined the group for the reasons Jericoa stated in the Stephanomics blog today … I will put a link to this blog from my Poweromics blog shortly too …
http://poweromics.blogspot.com
I hope I (as well as the above blog) can contribute a little to aid the task ahead, and to help in coming up with potential alternatives … [nb my blog also points to other useful links too hopefully].
.. this is a great idea, and how I see the internet starting to power change … my only personal concern at the moment is in the name ['lobbygroup'] – as it seems to suggest (hopefully incorrectly) that there is going to be a large element of coersion (e.g. like the CBI etc etc), rather than ‘leadership’ (which in the 21st century will largely need to occur without coersion, or the need for authority …).
I nearly didn’t join because of the above concern, and I’m concerned this may be similar for others too. Can you allay me of any such fears, and let me know how the group plans to avoided being immediately ‘branded’ this way in the future (given it’s in the name)? … [NB this will be by everyone, including politicians & the media alike - which will destroy the value of all the good work done here].
… In the meantime I’ll take a look at the postings and see how contribute …
Many thanks
David
by Jericoa
21 Jul 2009 at 14:35
Thanks for the feedback David, always appreciated and ..welcome!
I see what you mean about the name, no affiliation with coertion was intended.
lobbying in its purest form should be about those who are not in power putting forward their case to those who are in power to effect change for the better with no leverage between those parties in line with the required conduct between honourable gentlemen!
Lobbying is now of course more famous for the abuse of the principle rather than the principle itself, I can see how that may be misunderstood / put people off now that you mention it.
The intented message from the name was quite the opposite and the potential for misunderstanding you quite rightly point out is more a reflection of how the original intent of the system has been sucessfully corrupted I would say.
There was also an element that the name embodied the idea of an open forum for discussion with no real leadership or direction as such… The domain name was somewhat surprisingly available also at minimal cost.
In future that may change depending on what comes out of the consultation / lobbying process I suppose but first things first, lets get consensus via as many unleveraged opinions of the varied wise we can find on what may be away forward, if we dont get that the leadership needed will have no substance behind it.
That is what it is supposed to be about anyway.
I have visited your site some time before and I would say the motivation and rationale between the two sites is in overwhelmingly the large part aligned.
Lets help each other.
Many Thanks
Simon
by Leanomist
21 Jul 2009 at 15:49
Thanks Simon – I agree … and let’s help each other as much as we can (e.g. Given your comments too I will flag on Stephanomics that I’m joining this group too – and let’s see if we can prompt even more insightful bloggers to do so). Best wishes, David
PS Given the clear motivations/rationales we share, are you able/happy to provide a reciprocating link to the Poweromics blog too? No matter if you can’t, but this is something I like to do when I find groups with similar aims/objectives and who are coming up with great stuff too (NB I’ve set up a link to lobbygroup.org from my Poweromics blog already).
by Jericoa
21 Jul 2009 at 17:39
In the beginning I fought for links and hit counters and the like, but the pro who gave up his time to produce this site strongly advised against it, crisp and clean and focused for websites is the way forward he maintained.
I have to say despite my initial skepticism I see what he means now to the point of wanting to defend it!
Such decisions are not up to me as an individual but for me I just like the fact it does not have any of that and I can see how that could actually enhance the message also. Thanks to Nick Taylor for that.
Nothing to stop you posting links within contributions of course.
What do you think?
by goldtop
22 Jul 2009 at 08:29
“In the beginning I fought for links and hit counters and the like, but the pro who gave up his time to produce this site strongly advised against it, crisp and clean and focused for websites is the way forward he maintained”
Keeping the layout and appearance un-cluttered is a good idea, I agree. However, I see no reason not to have a resource page where useful links and recommended reading can be listed.
by Leanomist
22 Jul 2009 at 15:26
Jericoa: Happy either way, and a general resource page like Goldtop has suggested sounds a great idea too …
PS I started to help trying to answer the question you’ve posed on Stephanomics today … a good question and I think most politicians etc wouldn’t have a clue how to answer it … !
by Jericoa
22 Jul 2009 at 23:30
A general resources page outside the main one seems like a perfectly reasonable compromise to me..lets do it..
Somebody else had a go at answering the question in a modern economical sense but a lot of their response was evasion relying on semantics, even they gave up in the end when it came down to ‘peak oil’ aka lack of available natural resources in general at a reasonable price to maintain growth.
I have picked up a few ideas from the blogs along the way and will have ago at updating/ adding to some of the manifesto points when I get chance.
Just got to keep plugging away I guess until something coherent appears.
by goldtop
23 Jul 2009 at 12:21
“A general resources page outside the main one seems like a perfectly reasonable compromise to me..lets do it..”
i`ll get on it (sorry about the capitalisation error there- i`m on a keyboard in japan and can`t figure how to get the caps on!). may take a short while though- lots of travelling and working going on at the moment.
by Jericoa
23 Jul 2009 at 13:53
GT,
Dont forget to give us a plug while you do the sound check on stage…
Check one two….lobbygroup.org if you want to know whats really going on and participate in changing it…
Bit of a mouthful though..especially in Japanese!
Welcome to Hawkeye as a member by the way, definately on our wavelength from his numerous well researched posts on the BBC blogs.
I keep on tinkering with the manifestos to bring in new ideas I come across, I could do with a bit more feedback and debate on them though which is still abit lacking since we started to promote the site.
Up to 25 members now
Just got to keep plugging away.
by Jericoa
02 Aug 2009 at 00:23
A post below from the BBC blogs
Until people get off their backsides and do something no misbehaving banker will be reprimanded.
They hold all the cards in the cyber world, they hold all the atomic level indentations on hard drives which now passes for money and keep us in bondage by exchanging the illusory money and conning us into thinking it is actually worth anything.
The only way they can be taken to task is to deal with them in the real world, we can not blog our way out of this, but nobody is used to undertaking real action any more and if they do they get infiltrated by the police and arrested before any crime has been commited (as happened recently with a demonstartion for anew power station). Not to mention the CCTV cameras on every corner which act as a deterent.
Trial by jury is being rolled back because the cases are ‘too complicated’ or ‘too dangerous’ for joe public to be allowed to pass judgement on for white collar crime and violent crime respectively.
Nobody sees it happening because it has happened very slowly and under the disguise of ‘protecting us’ or making things more efficient or ‘ making us safer’ but you add it all up and Orwell was right.
There is still enough of the laws and proceedures in place that our ancestors fought and died for to roll this emerging nightmare back but there is not much time, and precious little action that I can see.
wake up everyone.
by Jericoa
02 Aug 2009 at 11:14
”What’s that famous saying…’None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.”
That about sums it up actually.
I wish i could do more but guess what!
I am too busy trying to keep my job to pay my bloody bills and taxes and keep my family stable while trying to negotiate my way through an ever more bewilderingly complex society that seems to have precious little joy in it! The very same high technology society that was supposed to use that technology, efficiency and knowledge of the world to set us free from the drudgery.
That hard won legacy has been robbed from us by continuing to use greed to drive the system when the truth is with all the technology we have now we should be able to all have a basic descent standard of living, work less, spend more time with friends and family and community and leisure activities. Creativity and other activiies that bring real value and enjoyment to society should be rewarded.
Its such a waste, we go on about wasting this that and the other material things but what about the massive waste going on at the moment in the potential for human beings to live more enjoyable lives? More enjoyable lives that should now be possible through a fairer society which makes best use of modern technology for the benefit of all, not for the unpresedented wealth of the self styled ‘masters of the universe’.
Does not the title they gave themselves say it all? These are the guys whom our politicians spend the summer as guests on their yaghts…
We are so shrouded in stink we don’t smell it anymore.
by johnbray
02 Aug 2009 at 15:40
David,
a very early post (see here) might help explain the LobbyGroup name a bit.
by alexander curzon
16 Aug 2009 at 17:52
Hello EVERYBODY
Just to let you all know that the
BBC have banned me from posting
we have started legal action,but i think it will be a LONG haul.
So congratulations on the new format etc.
by johnbray
16 Aug 2009 at 21:23
Alexander – well done! Bit of a “badge of honour” really.
by alexander curzon
09 Sep 2009 at 21:50
Being BANNED by the BBC is a bit like getting an ASBO for a HOODY
Gues thats why Gordy loves me so
much. . .